RTW: phalanx control

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ladyAn
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Post by ladyAn » Mon Mar 14, 2005 5:07

I am very curious of how to have the "special function" ('F' on my keyboard) works. I am positively sure that it is a toggle button. Let me describe what I saw and maybe you could point out where I did wrong (or what could be done better):

1. If I select 1 unit, press 'F' once would take the unit from "on phalanx" to "off phalanx" and vice versa. When the unit is "on phalanx", the button lit up. The unit puts spears horizontal and it won't run. When "off phalanx", the button is unlit and the unit has spears up and it could run. Notice also that "on phalanx" unit would also raise spears if it needs to face a different direction.

2. If I select 2 units and the two are in same states, either on or off phalanx, then the button again works as a toggle. Both units behave exactly as they are same unit.

3. If I select 2 or more units and the two are of different states, one unit is "off phalanx" and another is "on phalanx", and press 'F', this is where things went wrong.
- My "off phalanx" unit will go "on phalanx"
- My "on phalanx" unit will go "off phalanx"
- The button shows as "off phalanx" all the time: unlit.

This is very unhealthy :)

Annie
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Louis Ste Colombe
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Post by Louis Ste Colombe » Mon Mar 14, 2005 11:52

It's getting a little more confusing now...

I looked at that again yesterday while playtesting some phalanx behaviour.

I got the same results with your point 1 and 2

However, for 3, if I have a group with 3 units in different state, and press X (my special key), they all go to phalanx mode. The one already in phalanx mode stay in phalanx mode. It's not toggling back.
I have tried that with both grouped and ungrouped selection of units.

How come we have a different behaviour? :roll: :? 8O

Louis,

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Post by Louis Ste Colombe » Mon Mar 14, 2005 12:12

For a long time I wanted to see what impact has rank and pike lenght on phalanx abilities.

When two phalanx pikemen face each other, phalanx on, guard off, I got the following result:
- a 3 rank phalanx lost to a 6 rank phalanx... the thinner phalanx got its center annihilated, and there is little wrap up effect.
- 6 ranks versus 9 ranks seem to make no/ little difference.

There is definitly a rank bonus.

Regarding pike vs spears unit; it does not make a big difference. Their stat seems to matter more than the weapon used. Macedonian Royal pikemen do OK against phalanx pikemen. But the real winner is the Armoured Hoplites. They keep pushing until they are at good distance to fight, and as their armour rating is very high, they hardly take any loss while moving up.
While it seems legions or barbarians are kept at bay a bit by spears or pike, the hoplite pushing (with phalanx ability on) seem to allow them to move up against the pike. With very heavy armour, they hardly take any casualty.
Legions got the same kind of armour, but don't have the push move.

Given that pike can't have large shield, it seems to be a small shield + pike versus large shield+ spear trade back. Right now, it looks like both options are OK and that the unit stat are what matters more than the weapon used.

Louis,

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Post by ladyAn » Mon Mar 14, 2005 18:21

Louis Ste Colombe wrote:
However, for 3, if I have a group with 3 units in different state, and press X (my special key), they all go to phalanx mode. The one already in phalanx mode stay in phalanx mode. It's not toggling back.
I have tried that with both grouped and ungrouped selection of units.
This means it is very unfair :)

I talked to several people online and they reported the same thing as my point 3.

Annie
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Spectre
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Post by Spectre » Mon Mar 14, 2005 18:50

This control issue is very odd, to say the least.

When I installed the game, I did a fresh install and directly applied the 1.2 patch before even starting the game. Maybe you had 1.1 installed and/or started the game before applying the patch, and that messed things up? :?

Maybe it's a regional issue or something?

Or perhaps it's a gender thing? The game automatically takes into account that men need simpler controls than women?

Did you remember to sacrifice a goat, a muskrat and a proboscis monkey to CA? (Those monkeys are _really_ tough to find... :P)

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Post by Temptation » Mon Mar 14, 2005 22:16

Spectre wrote:This control issue is very odd, to say the least.

When I installed the game, I did a fresh install and directly applied the 1.2 patch before even starting the game. Maybe you had 1.1 installed and/or started the game before applying the patch, and that messed things up? :?
That... or the difference might be that louis has assigned a new button to do this order, while me and annie are using the game default one? Not sure whether you use F or assigned a new one yourself cran.

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Post by Spectre » Mon Mar 14, 2005 22:35

I'm using the default F. Did reassign quite a few other keys, though.

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Louis Ste Colombe
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Post by Louis Ste Colombe » Tue Mar 15, 2005 0:14

Spectre wrote:This control issue is very odd, to say the least.

Or perhaps it's a gender thing? The game automatically takes into account that men need simpler controls than women?

Did you remember to sacrifice a goat, a muskrat and a proboscis monkey to CA? (Those monkeys are _really_ tough to find... :P)
Beside some_sacrifices, it probably has to do with being a mythical creature of some sort I guess, you being a Spectre, and myself being a Smurf or a Simurgh (works either way)...

I wonder how it works for Gus 8)

Frogbeastegg being a frog, it must work ok for her I guess :P

Louis,

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Post by ladyAn » Tue Mar 15, 2005 3:42

I'll do a reinstall pretty soon :) Fresh RTW with only patch 1.2 applied, then shall see.

Annie
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Post by frogbeastegg » Tue Mar 15, 2005 14:01

:runs in: Tested the control point Annie raised; the toggle works correctly for me. The unit out of phalanx goes into phalanx mode, then both units are synced. I had re-bound the key to 'g' ages ago. :sprints off:
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Post by Temptation » Tue Mar 15, 2005 17:47

*dreams about how her phalanxes will be even more lethal once she got the toggle thing working properly*

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Post by ladyAn » Wed Mar 16, 2005 22:50

I made some tests yesterday evening and the results made me even much more confused.

For reference:
1. Behavior 1: Phalanx in mixed mode would all go first to phalanx mode, then toggle each time 'f' is pressed (special function key)
2. Behavior 2: Phalanx in mixed mode would remains toggled and still mixed after pressing 'f' (special function key)

A) CUSTOM GAME:
Behavior 1 is observed. Didn't see behavior 2.

B) MULTI GAMES:
- Behavior 1 is observed during deployment.
- bahevior 1 is observed during game when things are calm.
- behavior 2 is observed when things get heavy: units are walking or running and being attacked. And that's where it counts. That's where I want behavior 1.


What to do now? I'll do more testing. Here are some of the stuffs I do duing multi game:

- Is this related to grouping and super-grouping? In game, I use supergrouping with overlapped units in group. For example, I have 7 phalanx units, 2 in group I, 3 in group II and 2 in group III. The deployment is from left to right I, II and III. I have supergroup 1 with I and II (representing my left flank), supergroup 2 with I, II and III (the entire phalanx, handy to ralley all phalanx together later), supergroup 3 with II and III (my right flank).

- Is this related to "it works if you have only 1 unit out of state while the rest are in the other state, but wouldn't work if more than 1 unit are in/out of phalanx";

- Is this related to "walk/run" status? As it is reported elsewhere, there is an inconsistent of how walk/run works. Mixed "walk/run" would result to toggling between walk and run for different units. Maybe some of my phalanx was running?

Annie
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Post by Spectre » Tue Apr 19, 2005 18:44

Anyone else noticed that when you give a meleeing phalanx the "stop" command (default: backspace), they re-equip their pikes and use them for a few seconds even if the formation is disrupted and/or penetrated by the enemy?

It's some extra microing, but it feels like this trick makes phalanxes perform better vs. cav. Gotta test this a bit more. :P

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Post by ladyAn » Wed Apr 20, 2005 8:56

I switch from phalanx to non-phalanx then back again. If already in melee, switch to non-phalanx doesn't cost you much extra. Then back to phalanx again allow me to hit the horsemen on the head with the pikes. Sometimes that kill more than the first charge :)

Annie
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